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Post by revjohn on Jan 16, 2014 19:33:08 GMT -8
What does Jesus say becomes of matter in the end? How do you interpret what he is saying and does this differ from what we read in the canonical books of the mainstream Christian bible? If so, how?
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Post by lindalewandosky on Jan 28, 2014 7:48:18 GMT -8
I feel like both the Gnostic and the mainstream are trying to get to the same point but saying it in different ways. There's a cycle of life and death and rebirth. Here in the GoM, Jesus is saying that all matter returns to it's source (roots) and in the mainstream bibles it says much of the same.
Yes, I know I'm taking some of this out of context but:
Ecclessiastes: 12:7 And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Genesis: 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, tip you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.
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Post by mike sickler on Feb 5, 2014 4:01:21 GMT -8
I agree with Linda. To me, the canonical books and the Gospel of Mary are very similar when speaking about matter. Matter returns to it's original form, which is earth based and we become one with nature once again. Just like in the Bible, we are formed from the breath of God and dust. We must return to the dusts and sands of the earth at the end. This goes for not only living creatures but all matter in general.
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Post by mjbackus on Feb 21, 2014 5:30:08 GMT -8
Are we meant to take literal translation of what we read? If I may explore matter from another point of view? I have been told by some who have probably spent lifetimes as scholars in comparison with what I know to read the bible with two different point of view. One is the literal translation, which when taken into consideration is a fascinating story of time. The other point of view is a much different, more allegorical language. Allegory has been used since time immemorial to depict stories often with hidden meaning along with various things that are hidden in plain sight. There are two reasons for that: in Matthew 7:6 it is written to not cast your pearls before swine. The other is also a simple reason (in my opinion), when there are people who allow themselves to open up to the esoteric process, they will reveal what is most concealed to the public in plain sight. I could go on about this but I digress, my apologies! Much of my thought process is currently outside of my capacity. I know very little about the occult science of alchemy...yet I can tell you that "matter" is a large portion of what an alchemist works with. "Matter is understood to come from a single primordial state of matter. Physically, you cannot fully break down an object into this substance: setting something on fire does not leave prime matter behind. Soot is still more complicated than prime matter. But allegorically, this is about breaking down the self into its most basic state, stripping away everything superfluous in order to reach the core of being. Ultimately, you break down primal matter itself (allegorically speaking) until all you have is divine essence, understanding, a complete lack of attachment to physicality." - altreligion.about.com/od/westernocculttraditio1/a/Steps-And-Basic-Processes-In-Alchemy.htm"Mythologically, negredo is the descent into the underworld, albedo is the elevation of the spirit into heaven, and rubedo is the rebirth into the world as a being purified and transformed. Likewise, it is the setting of the sun every night, often mythologically seen as a descent into the underworld. It is the traversing of that underworld, and the realization of the return of the sun at daybreak, associated in many cultured with rebirth and resurrection." - same source. |
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Post by revjohn on Feb 23, 2014 18:29:12 GMT -8
Good observations everyone! And good question, Matthew! The question of whether to take something literally is an age-old debate among people of faith. My own recommendation is to seldom take what we read as the literal truth. But each of us has to do what works for us.
My own take on this also mirrors Linda's closely with one exception. I understand Jesus's words as telling as that in the end matter returns to its root components and that the only thing that is eternal is the soul. I do find at least one major difference though between what we read here and in the in the mainstream Bible. Most major Christian denominations teach that upon the return of Jesus, our bodies will be resurrected. In some denominations, cremation is prohibited because it would interfere with this. Come to my talk at Conclave when I will share more of my studies on what different religions say about the nature of matter - especially our bodies! :-)
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